Check the mobile phone records from the idiot driver. He was staring at his iPhone or Galaxy and failed to pay attention to the neo-Nazi shitbox making a directional change. If that’s the case, revoke his damn license.
Bet they are lying and just pressed the wrong pedal by themselves. Bet they were on their phone, the cruise control beeped and then they panicked and floored it. Insurance companies probably have to deal with a ton of Tesla owners who are blaming the Autopilot for a mistake the driver made, even when the cruise control wasn’t used.
Seems like a pretty risky lie as the car should have logs saying exactly what happened (at least to the level of detail of cruise control + accelerator vs self-driving).
Non-Tesla cars have black boxes already and have for years so you yeah you’re right
Until Tesla scrubs that from their log again like they were already caught doing once
Curious: what was the outcome of them being caught doing that?
The jury didn’t like it, but it didn’t really prove anything that wasn’t already known. I’m not really sure why they did what they did in the end? It wasn’t disputed that AP was on, and that the guy overrode the saftey systems. The jury found them partially at fault because they allowed the system to operate there and because they claim it didn’t work as advertised, and it was a huge jury verdict damages they have to pay.
I have a feeling it’s going to get a reduced damages though as it goes through appeals. The dude was looking down for a phone he fumbled with his foot on the accelerator which overrides the safety systems, to the point the car warns you on screen that it will not brake while your foot is on the accelerator. And guess what… the car did not brake! Surprise!
Thanks! I would have had to go looking to remember the details
Oh, that might have been plain old incompetence rather than deliberate evidence tampering if both sides agreed to the bits that incriminate their own side. Unless there was something more going on that the logs would have shown, like “damage detected while self-driving enabled, dispatching Tesla cleanup crew to take care of the witnesses”.
It was definitely deliberate. Something happened for some reason.
Maybe they were worried about something bad being in there before they knew the facts were agreed upon, and then they had already dug their own grave?
I feel like your insurance should automatically be higher for being stupid enough to purchase one.
It is. Tesla insurance is expensive.
I still think it nuts that the main insurance companies will even insure these things. Especially the stupid truck.
Teslas be like
(elon doesn’t believe in lidar)
Elon knows it’s too expensive to incorporate lidar data into his product line.
I’m not a fan of Elon or Tesla, just for the record. So I hate to actually be the one defending them. But I’m guessing on the same exact day about 12 people drove through their garage doors, NOT in Teslas.
Yeah, but there are more than 100x other cars on the road. And this one is automated. And this was a stupid mistake if true.
I mean, they’re probably lying about it being on autopilot, they just pushed the wrong pedal or something. That said, I drive an electric van at work and it wouldn’t let me bump into something if I tried.
The reporting states the driving mode in question was Tesla’s “autopilot system,” instead of the proper Autopilot, which is Tesla’s less advanced driving system. Full Self-Driving (Supervised) is Tesla’s more capable feature, although its name is a misnomer, since it’s not capable of fully driving itself and requires constant supervision.
I feel like this section needs a rewrite. What is the distinction they’re drawing between “Tesla’s ‘autopilot system’” and “Autopilot”?
It’s hard to describe these modes because Tesla purposefully blurs and obfuscates what they actually can/cannot do (like giving them names that are basically synonyms.) Typical confuseopoly strategy.
Are you saying that there are three modes, one called “autopilot system,” one called “Autopilot,” and one called “Full Self-Driving”? Because otherwise this phrasing:
the driving mode in question was Tesla’s “autopilot system,” instead of the proper Autopilot
is confusing in a way that’s independent of the way that Tesla’s names are confusing.
My understanding was that there are two modes, one misleadingly called “autopilot” which is basically adaptive cruise control plus lane keeping, and one even more misleadingly called “full self driving,” which integrates with the GPS and will also do lane changes and exits. Both will happily plow you into a semi at speed, which makes the names REALLY dumb. But the distinction the article is making, between the “autopilot system” and capital-A “Autopilot,” seems like it needs more explanation, and I don’t think that’s a Tesla distinction.
Autopilot*
*not actually autopilot
so fukn misleading. elon should be sued for billions
these fukn technocrats are all shitbags, and deserve to be taxed to hell
I saw my first Tesla this week with the “I bought this before Elon went nuts” bumper sticker. I don’t give a fuck when you bought that garbage, its a fucking dangerous piece of shit and shouldn’t be on the roads with real cars. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for EVs taking over the market, just as long as they aren’t teslas.
“autopilot” shouldn’t even be used on a narrow residential street like that.
Putting the company aside for a second, genuinely why? Low speed residential, especially narrow or precision driving should be bread and butter tier 2 autonomous driving, right under tier 1 = highway, and quite a lot over the complexities of mixed use areas at higher speed. Unless you specifically meant their Tesla autopilot and not the concept as a whole with it in quotes.
Autonomous vehicles have been known to run over and through quite a few things. In an area where a bunch of kids are likely to be playing is a bad place for such a technology IMO.
Did the road runner paint a tunnel on it again?
This is a murder idea right here.
A YouTuber already proved that Teslas autopilot would drive straight through a portrait of a road. Since it only uses cameras without other tech like lidar
So would plenty of human drivers.
Sure because humans don’t have radar and lidar. Something Tesla chose not to put on their vehicle.
Yes it is a questionable decision. But I think it wasn’t just being cheap. I think it’s because of liability for errors; when it comes to placing fault on a car in the legal system, a judge / jury is only going to look at video captures. They won’t understand the lidar data. So if the car makes a bad decision based on lidar when there’s a conflict with visual queues, it will be deemed that it made a mistake. So there’s not really any point to trying to work with the lidar data.
I don’t know if what you’re saying is true but refusing to use technology that would prevent accidents because it will be more difficult to explain the cause of the remaining accidents is a crazy take. And the other self driving car companies use lidar so the NTSB isn’t unfamiliar with the technology.
Human drivers can pull in environmental and other cues though, like “why is there daylight on the road inside a building?”
Ai can use that info too. And it doesn’t get distracted, or drink beer. Self driving cars have the potential to be much safer than humans. We don’t seem to be there yet, but we will be eventually if we don’t block progress.
You’re talking about a few different things, here.
- AI could potentially use that info, yes. Teslas don’t use AI to drive
- Self driving cars do have the potential to be significantly safer, this is true. Telsa’s cars, through a series of missteps, are not anywhere near that potential, and in fact are hazards on the road. This is bad for developing true self-driving cars!
- The only obstacle to progress being discussed is covered by a picture of a road…
Pretty sure Teslas now do use AI to drive.
When the CEO keeps saying they’ll have full auto pilot in the next few years for over a decade, then complains that the problem is the government stopping then from rolling it out, you start to question if it should ever be rolled out. At least maybe not by a for profit entity who puts profits before safety.
FWIW Google/Alphabet/Waymo seem to be doing a decent job and seem to really be doing the work to deliver solid (level 4?) self driving. Tesla is just so unserious and are happy to hype their shit up and let consumers believe the hype which leaves people treating their “self-driving” car as if it is really capable of what the average person would envision when you use the term “self driving “. And then it drives through a wall like Wiley E Coyote.
This is crazy, I was in a parking lot yesterday and saw someone have their Tesla driver right up to them to pick them up in the parking lot with no driver inside. Kind of pissed me off I was so near in the same parking lot that was operating on its own, with my wife and nieces. I know Elon Musk wouldn’t give one fuck about me if his dumbass machine ran me or mine right over
They have had that capability for at least 7 years now so if it makes you feel any better, it’s been getting tested for a while. Interesting side note, if the car does fuck up and damage another car or injure someone, the TOS says that the owner of the vehicle is liable and Tesla has no culpability.
After almost getting hit twice by a driven Tesla while walking in a lot, the guy parked it in a handicap spot with no placard and speed walked into the store. Upon exit from a different door, the driver had it drive itself to him. I’m miffed i missed my chance to fuck with it because I didn’t know what was going on. I was waiting, debating calling police for the placard issue (given there were multiple open spaces nearby). I decided to not get involved and drove in front of the tesla to exit. Weird, I noted, seeing the drl bar and left blinker on. Turns out, it was waiting it’s turn to leave autonomously.
Fuck that guy. DoorDash vibe. 150ft walk.
Feel free to fuck with that car, there really isn’t a penalty for say moonwalking in front of one, if it does hit you, great you’re a millionaire. Or if you don’t feel like doing it just point it out to my dumbass.
You don’t become a millionaire just for being hit, you’d have to be injured enough to get that, and this is at low speeds in a parking lot. But yes, you can fuck with it to fuck with them, like blocking it etc.
Are people stupid enough to actually trust Tesla’s autopilot, or do they do it on purpose to then sue Tesla?
Nevermind, I know the answer…
It works well, until it doesn’t. That first part lulls people into complacency. I rented a Kia last year that had automatic cruise control and lane keep assist and it kept me on the road far past when I should have pulled over and taken a nap from being sleep deprived after a redeye flight. Dangerous? Yes. Skill issue? Maybe. What I took away from the experience is that it is frighteningly easy to get used to a thing “just working” and forget about its limitations when it is convenient. I also learned that I do not want lane keep assist or automatic cruise control in my personal car.
This is basically automation bias you’re describing and it’s what scares the hell out of me with these “FSD” teslas on the road.
Even if you were able to keep constantly alert during the 99% of the time where this works (which I think is close to humanly impossible) why would you want a system that doesn’t offload you at all? The only value of this system is if people ignore the limitations and allow themselves to zone out - the rest of us are at risk when it goes wrong!
I use lane assist and traffic aware cruise to keep my shoulders and (bad) knee physically relaxed on long highway stretches. That said, I would probably choose to tolerate the inevitable day of neck and/or knee pain if it meant no one was using this stuff. Automation bias is scary.
If the person driver is trying to escape culpability, too bad. They made the decision to use Tesla autopilot which is well known to go crazy and crash into things, so the fault remains with them.
That’s a bad take.
Tesla built the system, and advertised it to provide a specific service. That service is faulty. Tesla is at fault.
You can’t expect every consumer to just understand that the company selling the product is outright lying. That’s putting the responsibility in the wrong hands, and absolving corporations of lying to the public.
It was autopilot, not FSD. It’s adaptive cruise control. Originally also lane keeping but Tesla was forced to remove that
Was literally in a self drive Tesla a couple of days ago. 2023 model. Self drove 170 miles door to door except final parking. So I’m not sure what you mean when you say they removed it.
The other gimmicky Tesla stuff aside, the self drive was freaking awesome.
For autopilot they recently removed lane keeping in response to a lawsuit. Although I don’t know if that’s location-specific
That’s different from full self-driving
https://insideevs.com/news/785225/tesla-removes-autopilot-base-models/
They no longer sell AP in areas that offer FSD Supervised, yes in part likely because of the lawsuit, but if you have AP lane keeping was not removed, and you can still get it anywhere FSD Supervised isn’t approved and sold today.
I think it’s also so Elon can pump his FSD subscription numbers to get his performance goal of so many subscriptions.
The current FSD subscription price is much better than the purchase price used to be and they are much closer to being able to deliver.
I’m getting tempted. I’ll probably let a million cyberCab users do a more complete validation but it’s definitely getting close
There’s no way they’ll keep it at that price once it works, and since it can’t be bought now, everyone who didn’t purchased it is gonna be SOL. It’s going to be the only option moving forward for any kind of lane keeping.
Edit: And by works I mean when they can run a large Cybercab fleet across the country autonomously like Waymo.
This is why AI shouldn’t be making any management decisions
that tech at IBM all those years ago had it right the whole time
You couldn’t pay me to drive a Tesla, and that’s doubly true for Tesla on “autopilot”.
