That was disturbing news to Angelica Jadunandan, who moved to New York from Florida with her two young daughters three years ago. Her older daughter, who is eight, is transgender, and Angelica wanted to move them to a safe blue state—somewhere her family’s medical care would not be called into question. New York is a self-declared “sanctuary state” for trans people. It seemed like a good option.
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Because they tell us, and we listen.
As studies show children begin to understand gender by ages 3 and are generally fully formed by 7. With ‘Affected transgender individuals are usually aware of its existence by the age of 5 years.’.
From here children are hopefully able to begin treatment, through social transitioning. Where studies show that starting transitioning at a median age of 8.1, 97.5% remained transgender either in a binary or non-binary identities.
Shocking to nobody, we understand ourselves and know we are trans from very young ages.
Not only does this align with my own lived experiences as a trans woman, but it matches what I have seen in my 10+ years of working in Early Childhood Education and seeing other trans children begin to identify themselves and maintain said identity up into their teens.
Oh and I’m downvoting you because your post doesn’t deserve attention, and is clearly being asked from an antagonistic and transphobic angle.
Are you ignoring the serious criticisms of Gillick competence?
The years I have spent crying over this… I don’t want to know what the removed comment said, but I want to reiterate how broken and sad a life unlived can be. In so many ways I’m so jealous of young trans women getting to pursue the life I never got to, but I’m also glad they get to live it at all.
Wait are you recently out? Congrats, I think, LOL (I’m one of like three trans guys on here, 14 years on T next month, I imagine coming out now is not a great time even if there’s not the same level of medical gatekeeping as when I started transition).
It seems like the only regret the vast majority of trans people have, at least those of us of a certain age, is the regret over not being able to transition sooner. It doesn’t do any good to dwell on that regret, that game isn’t productive, but I’m pretty sure we’ve all wondered how much better our lives would have been if we could have had fewer empty miserable years.
Not her, but I transitioned in early adulthood and while I’ve met many who deeply wish they could have at the age I did, I still regret not having the knowledge/courage to transition sooner
And congrats on nearing 14 years dude! I hit 11 in the spring. Things were very different when you (and to a certain degree I) transitioned, to the point where I’ve confused people who transitioned more recently by mentioning the hoops I had to jump through
You’ve posted some good information about this. I’m also wondering at what age children were exposed to information about gender norms that deviate from cis-, like through, public education, YouTube or other social media platforms. I’m not sure if it’s taught in public education curriculums to young children, but my intuition says no.
My intuition also tells me that the decision to transition wasn’t influenced by outside factors, but purely through internal motivation. If anything, I would think a lot of individuals struggle with their gender dysphoria, as they realize there can be very real social consequences to coming out.
The fact that such a high rate of individuals are satisfied after their outsides match their insides is pretty much the nail in the coffin for those who oppose transition for youth. As well as anyone who thinks someone can be programmed via education or YouTube to become trans, non-binary, etc.
Also, individuals who differentiate from socially-reinforced gender norms only account for 1-3% of the total US population, so it’s very silly it’s treated by reactionaries as some threat that is going to consume the entire population of kids.
In my case I was a child in the 90s. I wasn’t really exposed to the information until MySpace. I still knew I was different as a young kid, but I didn’t have the information and words to describe it or environment to explore it in.
Today I teach it to my 3 year old class, and I know in at least one nearby primary school they have non-binary toilets and have some education on gender. But I’m also in Australia.
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you quite obviously have no kids, and in the unfortunate circumstance that you have managed to procreate, I pity those children and hope they find better in life once they’re free of you.
By listening to the child…
It’s…a child…
If a toddler hands you a phone, do you not answer it?
If they asked to be called a pirate do you say no?
Why is name/pronouns different? They can’t control those?
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Meh, I don’t believe they fully understand at that age. My daughter thought she was a boy when she was around 10, she is now 18 and turned out she was just gay. Had we gone the route of medical change it would have been the wrong choice for her.
What medical change? Because your options were a lot leas than you think.
The only one available to a 10 year old is puberty blockers. Those are 100% reversible, and are commonly used outside of trams health care. Theyre used to delay the onset of development. The process restart the moment you stop taking them. No long teem effects have been found the several times I’ve done literature review. If you have one please send me a peer review paper.
This also is not done on a whim. This would be done in coordination with a psycayrist that also would explore those feelings with them. If not a Dr then a therapist for aure. I would want someone trained to explore gender vs sexuality with before asking for puberty blockers.
And on a different note. Let’s say you did let your daughter experiment with gender.
Go buy different name and pronouns, feel those don’t fit, and go back? Like what’s the long term damage. All I see is someone that comes out more confident that they’re a woman after that?
I fail to see any long term damage that would have happened, even if you did medical intervention.
This is how MAGA people think it works:
Five-year-old boy: I like pink dresses
Teacher: we must cut off your penis this instant
so does dim-bulb up above there, lol
I don’t think the long term effects of puberty blocking are fully understood and in my opinion not worth the risk.
But I’m also adverse to medication in general so I’m biased on that.
I didn’t stop her from exploring either as much as other want to believe it. She did do therapy at one point and we fully supported her in all she did. I just stand firm on any life altering decisions until they are older. That’s like letting your child get a tattoo or drive a car or smoke or anything you would not let them do.
Also I appreciate the civil response.
“I allowed my daughter to explore her gender and supported her with therapy and she maintained her gender identity so I don’t think any other children or parents should be able to do what we did.”
Sounds cruel to me.
Based on what? Thats the problem here. You have this opniom, based on 0 supplied facts. This isnt new medicine. This is decades and decades of medical knowledge here.
https://www.jeremypbushnell.com/unfinished_everything/The history of puberty blockers - affirmative care.html
Were walking 45 years here.
Edit:
Was your daughter offered/suggested blockers?
Because it sounds like you did the right thing, listened to medical advice, and got the correct advice. So now other people shouldnt have it?
Blair white, the fucking republican poster child for “one of the good ones,” said she knew when she was 5. This is not a controversial point and the fact that you can’t be bothered to look into it further than your own intuition is not our fault. Jumping into a debate without at least glancing at the data is moronic, and saying “nah” when actually presented the data is incomprehensibly stupid.
Everyone else covered the “medical change” stuff so I’ll let that go.
No one advocates for medical changes beyond (reversible) puberty blockers at that age - specifically to give young people time to figure these things out. Also counseling is often involved, so in your daughter’s case it’s likely a professional would have worked with her and helped her determine this about her.
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Who said they are?
Puberty blockers
A) are prescribed all the time to children youger who start puberty ‘too early’
B) are reversed the moment you stop taking them.
Also, it’s not a binary choice, or permenant. If a child wants to by jenifer instead of Steven for week, just do it? You’d do the same if they wanted to be called pirate king for a week.
Also,
No one is doing medical intervention without it being persistent. No one is prescribing these on a whim.
Actual question, not getting at anything here: how do puberty blocker effects reverse? Does it essentially make you a late bloomer if you stop taking them, or is some growth missed out on/skipped because you take them?
I’m seeing some people say that it pauses things and doesn’t cause any issues if someone goes off them, but I’m seeing other comments that it can negatively impact bone density. How does it not stunt puberty at all if it’s paused for a certain period of time?
And not to be rude, please do your own research here.
I’m not saying this to be mean, I’m. saying it because I’m a random asshat on the internet. Find trusted sources, and find people who know more than me, an anon asshat.
Also, Its not always… Good… To ask the repressed minioroty for education. Its fully well intentioned. But your deferring to my opniom as if I’m a medical expert. When I’m at most an expert in my own health care.
My opinions om care are informed by opinions like paediatricians and other medical professional associations, all of whom say this care is safe.
I linked in another comment these were first used in the early 80s, 45 years ago. There’s TONs of info.
Now, like I said, not a medical expert. But I do have an acemic experience (degree in physics). I’ll say a good start is google scholor. Or looking for information on trusted places, like the medical associations.
Thats not to say there aren’t side effects, there’s always risk with medical decisions. On both sides.
There are many trans kids who kill them selves because transitioning isnt an option available to them. So saying ‘no’ to it, also has real risks.
Edit: I provided a link in another reply
https://www.jeremypbushnell.com/unfinished_everything/The history of puberty blockers - affirmative care.html
I did, and then I asked a question on this forum after reading over conflicting answers from what I thought were decent sources and other forums.
This is a politics forum for conversation. It’s silly not to ask questions on a forum that any user on the thread can answer. That’s one of the prime benefits of the Internet - asking questions and conversing with people around the world while learning things.
Either way, thanks for providing the link.
Delayed edit: here’s the last article I pulled up that talked about potential bone density and neuro issues that were not yet studied enough.
https://politifact.com/article/2023/aug/28/puberty-blockers-the-facts-and-the-myths/
My full opnion on what I’m am expert in is already posted in this thread. My own health care and experience.
You asked for a viewpoint on one I can not provide. As I’m not a medical care expert. I defer to those I’ve already mentioned.
And that doesn’t really address the second part. Your asking a trans woman to be an expert in something the vast majority of us are not. Your asking a minority to be an expert and a representivie of the community as a whole. Rather than the individual they are. My background is physics. I can answer quantum questions no problem. I can even talk stattics in a lot of different contexts. But medical care is not one.
Its a common, but overhwleming, ask to be that expert, representative, or (calling it what it is) token.
Thats why I’m rejecting the question. Not because it was asked in bad faith. But That it has no business being asked of a random asshat on the internet. And at no point should you trust the answer anyways.
I’m replying to your comment as an open question for you or anyone else on the forum to respond to. Sorry for the confusion: the question is not only for you.
Delayed edit: I should have prefaced my original response to make this more clear and not make it seem like the pressure was on you. My bad.
Except we do make this choice as children.
The ones who won’t leave the children alone are the freaks who try to enforce cisnormative gender expression onto children.
Please just leave the kids alone and let them continue to exist as the trans kids they are.
Have you ever met an 8 year-old? They barely know what they want to eat for lunch most days. They have neither the life experience or knowledge to have to make a decision.
Society forces gender norms, and thus binary status, on children when we should just let them be kids. Why is this controversial?
Choosing to present as their assigned gender at birth is also a decision. It is not a neutral choice. Not all but many trans kids know they are trans, know that presenting in ways they would prefer is not safe or accepted, and suffer in silence.
Those are the kids we are trying to protect when we want to preserve trans Healthcare for children.
Look, I’m a trans woman, and I ‘knew’ at that age. Did i know what it was? No!
But I clearly wasnt acting like a boy either. They know.
I agree that the constructs are stupid. Thats not the conterveraal thing you said though.
At that age you know what is appropriate gender affirming care? Calling them whatever random bullshit name they want to be called, and however they want to be referred to. For most children, it could just be a phase. But there’s no harm in indulging age appropriate care.
You absolutely wouldn’t be saying any of this if your 8 year old kept walking into the wrong bathroom. Nobody would say oh, that’s normal because kids just can’t be expected to know which bathroom they go in at that age, or whether they call their mom ‘she’ or ‘he’. You fully expect an eight year old to have a firm grasp on the basics of gender, but not to be able to think about how they feel about how any of it applies to them?
They may not have what you consider deep thoughts, but trying to deny them their own sense of self because it makes you uncomfortable is going to fuck your kid up. Ask me how I know. Maybe they hop around in identities; so fucking what? 8 is the perfect time to be doing that, well before worrying about the irreversible effects of puberty and having to make decisions about blockers.
Further down in this post I have linked to studies showing 97.5% of all 8 year olds remain trans and know by the age of 5.
We understand ourselves as children far better than you give us credit for.
Just leave us alone. Our only problem is not being taught the words to describe ourselves and that we can transition.
Sounds like you haven’t raised your kid to be particularly articulate or willing to share their feelings with you.
My comment was removed by a mod for Rule 4. Bullshit. I said nothing trolling or low-effort. I asked why we’re even bothering kids and making them forced to choose.
This is a fucking political community. Asking questions in good faith should not be censored because of mod opinions.