My voting flow chart is socialists, then democrats, then nobody.
Imo, we can fight over what shade of blue after the pedos are out of office.
This right here. And it goes for centrist dems too. If a progressive is the candidate on the ticket, vote for them. Don’t let the pedophiles win this one
Seems notable that we don’t have a headline with Joe Biden or whoever urging moderates to vote Democratic
It’s not this headline, but I’m sure he has. Either he has or he’s been told that saying anything may drive people away instead, so he’s staying silent. Obama frequently does say this.
That might have more to do with the senile and dying thing. Or he might’ve said it already. He probably did but I’m too lazy to check.
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Yes. The centrist ass dem I voted for veto’d a pro union bill. I would still vote for her over the alternative.
My primary votes are all left though.
In Canada, we have “centrists” that are really just fascists that don’t openly hate gay people. There is almost no difference between our current prime minister and the guy so many people were voting against. The stupid thing is that we have a proper progressive party.
My message to you is this: The conservatives know you’re scared and are using that. Their only tactic is to tell you that you need to vote against someone who is worse than them and then they get their power either way. It’s always “we can argue over the shade of blue once you put this specific shade of purple into power” and then nothing happens. The name-brand conservatives complain about them being woke, the “moderates” act like the problem is solved, and the left has to deal with both those idiots refusing to do any work.
Democrats have won multiple times since Carter and we’re still broke and rent is still insane. You’re preaching to the choir, but we didn’t operate concentration camps on American soil, or start two-three(who knows!?) wars.
Better, at the moment is all I can get. One italian kid having the balls to shoot a ceo isn’t enough for these sheep to actually do what’s necessary to fix the disunited states.
Gotta agree here. In terms of endorsing human rights, Dems have a far superior record to the GOP. However, it’s their motivation that I question. Since most Dems are beholden to their corporate donors, their motivation is “freedom of consumption,” that is, giving access of consumption to marginalized groups to maximize profits. I wonder how much of it is a genuine concern for human rights.
It also explains how Dems don’t go far enough or fight hard enough when it comes to marginalized groups.
I’ll take a win regardless of the motivation, but it’s interesting to investigate the underlying motivations.
Democrats have won multiple times since Carter and we’re still broke and rent is still insane.
Have you considered that maybe part of the reason is that we keep slingshotting back to Republicans every other cycle and they do what they do best and fuck everything up, exactly like they’re doing now?
It’s massively disingenuous to imply Democrats don’t do anything. They have a PROVEN track record for being better for our economy. They’ve regularly bolstered social support programs. They passed the ACA/Obamacare, which definitely helped me when I was younger. They’ve worked to forgive student loans. They don’t make a hobby out of violating Constitutional rights. They don’t send masked goons into our cities to kill Americans. They don’t threaten our allies. They don’t impose tariff taxes.
They aren’t perfect, and clearly we should expect more out of them, but they definitely do get shit done and are a WAY, WAY, INFINITELY better option than Republicans and, realistically, the only other option on a federal level.
You’re right. They held our wellbeing just high enough for us not to riot. Now they know our bottom line is even lower than the meager leftovers they used to give us to make us think they’re the good guys. I’ll still vote for them over Republicans but the “good cop” party only cares about us as far as it gets them.
Now, that’s gonna change, hopefully. “The Democrats” that are pre-Trump are going to be seeing a bit of a socialist makeover before there’s any power grab by them ever again. The Democrats we knew won’t be The Democrats we know soon enough.
except Fetterman, fuck that guy
THANK YOU
Imo, we can fight over what shade of blue after the pedos are out of office.
I’m not sure what you are advocating for but if your argument is to vote for the democrat party to counter evil people such as pedophiles your best option is to advocate for a different party that isn’t affiliated with any pedophile and that doesn’t endorse genocides.
My flow chart represents exactly those people recieving my vote first and foremost if available. The Democrats are only viable in the absence of any decent choice.
your best option is to advocate for a different party
Lol.
I still don’t know what the right combination of words is to get this through to people like you. Or if that combination even exists. Maybe caps? Let’s try caps.
NO 3RD PARTY IS VIABLE ON A NATIONAL SCALE MEANING NO 3RD PARTY EVEN STANDS THE REMOTEST CHANCE OF WINNING THE PRESIDENCY OR CONTROLLING OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
Did that work?
Even if a 3rd party started really putting in the effort (none are) and American voters started taking them seriously, it would still likely take DECADES for that movement to build to the point that it stood a chance of winning a national election. That means that you WILL have Democrats or Republicans in control of the federal government, likely for the remainder of your life.
So if you want to help a 3rd party by voting for their candidates in local/state elections, then I’m with you and I support you. But if you aren’t adulting up and voting for Dems in NATIONAL elections to prevent ACTUAL FASCISTS from taking control, then you have failed at life.
Again, for the foreseeable future, Democrats or Republicans will control our federal government and Dems are so unbelievably better than Republicans that if someone can’t acknowledge that, I have to believe they have brain damage.
That’s the thing, there will always be those COUPLE OF DEMOCRATS that come out of nowhere and flip on ONLY the key issues we care about. Lieberman, Manchin, Sinema, Collins, Fetterman, etc.
Funny how we always just have to vote a little harder, right?
A lot of moderate and right wing Dems here.
Fetterman is a Trojan horse. They sent an undercover chud to parade around as woke. Bro looks about as woke as a snorlax
If Democrats don’t take at least one chamber of Congress in the fall, I genuinely worry they may never again. The little that’s left of American democracy won’t survive another 2 years of full MAGA control. Anyone urging you to not vote for the Democrat in your races or to not vote at all is either running a right-wing/foreign influence campaign or so clueless about the big picture as to be safely ignored.
Good that you’re holding out hope. Some of us have already lost that lovin’ feeling.
To clarify, I was just saying the bell may already be rung, and I’m no longer of the view that we can definitely right this ship. BUT I am NOT saying we should not try. I’ll keep trying until the bitter end.
Regardless of the outcome elections, the GOP isn’t leaving.
Anyone urging you to not vote for the Democrat in your races or to not vote at all is either running a right-wing/foreign influence campaign or so clueless about the big picture as to be safely ignored.
Anyone urging you to not vote for a party that supported and fueled a genocide is running a foreign influence campaign? Sound most likely to be the other way around to me
The party is far from unified on that issue. There are plenty of anti-genocide voices within the Democratic party, and you should try to elect Democrats if you want any of them to be anywhere close to holding power.
The party is far from unified on that issue.
The previous blue administration endorsed and fueled a genocide where thousand of kids were murdered, without any repercussion. To me it looks like they are quite unified on the issue.
How would you feel about anti-corruption voices within the republican party?
The previous admin is not the whole party. Clearly the republicans are better on this issue 🙄
If that were the case, why don’t any of the DSA candidates run on their own party? Oh they don’t? So you’re clearly full of shit or you don’t know anything about this topic to have an opinion
If that were the case, why don’t any of the DSA candidates run on their own party?
If you would rather run with a party endorsing a genocide than with another i’m gonna guess it’s because you are actually fine with their policies. There are more parties than red or blue.
You didn’t answer my question. Why do all the anti Israel DSA candidates run on the democratic platform? THINK MAN. THINK
yes TheFonz let’s think, why do these politicians keep aligning themself with criminals? If i have to guess it’s because they care more about power and being popular than doing what is good. Is bernie sanders an anti israel DSA candidate? Why is he on the platform of a nazi and doesn’t even bother to spend 2 minutes to set up a mastodon account?
If you would rather run with a party endorsing a genocide than with another
There are more parties than red or blue.
I mean, I have to ask. Are you brain damaged?
Really. Be honest when I ask this next question.
Do you actually believe a 3rd party can win a federal election?
Because the most popular 3rd party candidate in the last election (Jill Stein) got a half of a single percent of the total votes cast. Meaning there was absolutely, positively, categorically no path to victory for her, or any other 3rd party.
So no, there is literally no other party than red or blue when we’re talking about control of our federal government.
So you’ve either got to be brain damaged or so acutely unaware of American politics that you really shouldn’t be commenting on it.
Foreign influence campaign is the generous assumption. No one would be stupid enough to genuinely recommend we hand the election to MAGA because Democrats haven’t done enough against Israel.
Would they?
If you ask me the best way to handle power to the red party is to keep voting for red and blue, these two parties cycle in power and enable one another to win.
Well you didn’t say what you suggest instead, but third parties only hurt the party they resemble more. Bernie figured this out and works within the vehicle of the Democratic Party. I wish people would pick up the damn clue from him.
Bernie figured this out and works within the vehicle of the Democratic Party. I wish people would pick up the damn clue from him.
Personally i’ve figured out that this guy does nothing but propaganda for the red and blue party, gate keeping votes that could go to other parties and actually threat this corrupted system
I see. You’re still enjoying the fantasy of 3rd parties. Okay. I mean, we all go through that sometime.
Anyone urging you to not vote for a party that supported and fueled a genocide
Please, for the love of all things beautiful, shut the fuck up about this. It’s old. It’s tired. It’s worn out. It’s counter-productive.
Democrats or Republicans WILL control the federal government. One of those are ACTUAL, REAL fascists who utterly fuck up everything. The others are not and it’s stupid and disingenuous to imply they are.
With that in mind, any person that isn’t extravagantly stupid knows that we need to get Dems back in control of our federal government, after which we can work on reforming them to push them in a more progressive direction.
So please, stop with this tired ass unhelpful bullshit.
And if you don’t vote in primaries, you need to start. It’s the only chance any of us have a say-so on who ends up on the Dem ticket.
This will not work by itself. The Dems have been cheating in the primaries for decades. Do it anyway! But also, we need to get into the bureaucracy.
We can’t stop at voting in the primaries. The reason we have never gotten anywhere is because we are not in the machine. We watch from the outside.
If you personally can’t do it, push someone you know to try. We have to be in the machine watching the boring procedural stuff, sitting and taking minutes, making and checking internal votes, leaking information when the status quo cheats, changing things from the roots.
The magats took over the Republican party. It took 30 years, and they had big money helping, but we can do it faster and cheaper if there’s enough of us!
And this:
It’s hard to buck the establishment. ~16,000 people were the difference in a state of 10 million.
If every eligible voter participated it wouldn’t even be close. Always blows my mind seeing comments on voting doesn’t matter when I’m on average voting for 3-4 other citizens in primaries.
On one hand, true. But some things to consider:
- Only about 1.4 million votes were cast, ~13% of the state’s registered voters. If you look at a map of the volume of El-Sayed’s votes, this low turnout let a relatively small number of local hot spots swing the election with higher-than-normal turnout due to his focus on them
- That moneyball strategy succeeding is a good sign regardless of the margin; the opposition spent millions of dollars in big market cities (notably Detroit) and on state wide campaigns and still failed to keep up. Spending from AIPAC and corporate interests was something like 11:1 vs his total campaign spend ($95 per non El-Sayed vote vs $9 for)
- Michigan has open primaries, meaning any voter could ignore the red side of the ballot (mostly uncontested and landslides) to poison the opponents primary. I’m not sure if this is quantified anywhere, but it’s definitely a factor considering republican strategists view the nascent progressive wing as a larger threat than establishment dems
47% of Dems in that state are conservative neoliberal Zionists. The boomers will eventually die off.
I’m not convinced by that whole theory that “if everyone voted, the elections would turn out different!”. If we follow the Law of Large Numbers, the results would be pretty much the same.
I’m not convinced by that whole theory that “if everyone voted, the elections would turn out different!”.
There’s a strong correlation between election turnout and results trending conservative or progressive. It’s not the numbers but the percentage of turnout – and when turnout percentage is higher, the results skew progressive.
If we followed the Law of Large numbers here then we’d be doing garbage statistics and dumb.
That’s only correct if the reasons for not voting are similarly distributed across the political spectrum.
They are not: GOP constituencies tend to have easier access to time and resources to vote. Dem constituencies often have less access to polling stations, less ability to vote on election day due to work or life circumstance, and are disproportionately affected by moves for stricter voting requirements like proof of citizenship.
It is almost universally true, when turnout is high it benefits the Left. When it is low, it benefits the Right.
Yeah, my friends live in blue district in the city and it took them almost an hour to vote, their polling place was packed. The rural location I vote at was empty I was able to drive there, vote, and get home on a 30 minute lunch break. This seems to have always been a problem my whole life. I remember my parents taking me when they went and having to stand in long ass lines too. People are are always bitching about not wanting to go vote because it takes too long. IDK why it’s so hard for these places to organize it well enough to handle the volume more efficiently. It’s not like it really requires all that much manpower to hand out ballots and check IDs. Alternatively just make election days holidays.
Or reimburse the companies the salaries of their employee’s while they vote - I’m confident that would make queue times drop
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What up doe
There better not be one fucking democrat that doesn’t vote in the midterms and the presidential election in '28.
- There is a material difference between the Democrats and Republicans that’s worth observing. Dems are merely corrupt politicians: the Republicans are Xtian extremist white-nationalist fascists.
- It is vanishingly unlikely that a 3rd party candidate can win in 99% of the elections. Most successful independent politicians became independent after they were first elected, and win as incumbents.
- Not voting for the viable candidate running against the fascist GOP, because that candidate is not as $SOMETHING as you want them to be, is simply demonstrating privilege, that you are insulated enough from the effects of the fascist regime that you’re not personally harmed by the fascists winning. Vote like defeating the fascists is the only objective.
It totally depends on the candidate, their platform and who is financing their campaign. Just voting for someone because theyre a democrat gives us people like Kristen Sinema, Joe Manchin and Marie Gluesenkamp Perez who end up voting with the fascists.
Fetterman, Manchin, and Sinema, bad as they are and were, were still the better choice compared to their general election opponents.
An occasional collaborator sucks,. but is less-bad than either an unrepentant facist or an aligned “moderate” like Collins.
I feel like people forget that the alternative to Fetterman was Dr Oz.
Swapping Fetterman for Oz would have given the GOP majorities in both House and Senate, put Mitch McConnell back as Senate President, and generally been an objectively worse outcome.
Exactly this. I don’t disagree with wanting to cut the weakest members of the team to find someone better, but that’s for the primaries.
Looking at real numbers, Fetterman is better than Manchin or Sinema. Fetterman breaks with party lines around 25% of the time while Sinema was at 33% and Manchin was almost 40%. That makes him around twice as good as Manchin.
Idealogically, he also seems to stack up more favorably than both Manchin and Sinema, and a few other well know congressfolk that never get brought up in these conversations. Fetterman, like Manchin and Sinema, just seems to draw more attention to himself when he does it.
Do I dislike Fetterman and want him gone and replaced by someone better? Heck yeah! But the record shows he’s about 75% better than having Dr Oz as my senator would have been. Ignoring the times he did do what he was sent to do is very misleading to people that don’t take the time to look at actual data, which is going to be nearly everyone. Conor Lamb’s ideology score doesn’t look any better, so what we got is still about the best we had a chance to get.
People also fail to take account of Fetterman’s stroke, which clearly affected his allegiances.
He was known before it as a homespun man of the people.
Brain damage causes conservatism.
Agreed. Fuck Fetterman, but fuck Oz even more.
This is such a good point I hate to see it buried. The GOP in those areas would vote in satan2 if he had a red hat and said nice things about them.
if he had a red hat and said nice things about them.
Don’t even need to say nice things about them. Trump talks down to his supporters all the time and they slurp it up. It’s a cult thing. And if you have the mark of the cult upon your body, then you can say whatever and not lose support.
And who was the other option? Was it a Republican? Is it your assertion tha the Republican they were running against would have had a better voting record? Because that’s what you’re saying if you’re saying not to vote for the Democrat, no matter how shitty.
Or are you saying magically go back in time and run someone better? Because the opportunity to do so was not the general, but th eprimary.
But when it comes down to the general and you have one blue and one red option, GIVE ME ONE FUCKING EXAMPLE WHERE VOTING RED OR NOT VOTING BLUE IS THE CORRECT CHOICE.
Because all these people who sit out the vote are effectively voting red.
Also depends on the type of election. If you aren’t a fascist and you don’t vote Dem in a FEDERAL election (presidency) then there is something broken inside your brain and you need to immediately seek a more thorough education.
There is more nuance in smaller local/state elections though. But, assuming you aren’t a fascist, you still need to determine whether a Republican (fascist) will win if you don’t vote Dem.
If you want to vote 3rd party you need to accept that you are getting in on an enterprise building up from the basement of a very large building. You’re going to need to vote 3rd party for very small local offices for a very long time before you can start voting for them on a state level, and even longer before voting for them on a federal level. There is no cheat code to bypass this.
Bernie also gave Pennsylvania Fetterman
Bernie couldn’t have predicted his traumatic brain damage
This is who fettermans always been to anyone paying attention
Explain at what time and how he was brain damaged?
Dude’s had multiple strokes; his own staffer notes his change in disposition
https://people.com/john-fetterman-shares-graphic-photo-of-stitches-after-fall-11850101
Prior to his Nov. 13 [stroke], Fetterman experienced a stroke while on the campaign trail in May 2022, and in May of that year shared that he had been diagnosed with atrial fibrillation, which affects the two upper chambers of the heart. Ventricular fibrillation, the condition his spokesperson referred to after Fetterman’s most recent hospital stay, affects the two lower chambers.
In February 2023, Fetterman was hospitalized overnight for lightheadedness. At the time, his spokesperson said, “Initial tests did not show evidence of a new stroke, but doctors are running more tests and John is remaining overnight for observation.”
Just weeks after he was admitted to the hospital in February, Fetterman checked himself into Walter Reed National Military Medical Center for clinical depression.
“Part of the tragedy here is that this is a man who could be leading Democrats out of the wilderness,” Jentleson said. “But I also think he’s struggling in a way that shouldn’t be hidden from the public.”
Thanks to the ignorant cunts who ignore primaries thinking they don’t matter.
When that happens your November choice is between whoever got through the primary or the MAGAt, so people sit it out and bitch about their choices.
If enough progressives actually got involved rather than whining about things they could make huge gains and reshape the pathetic Democrats, alas, it’s easier to whine on the internet then go pay attention in the summer and stand in line to vote.
Voters have helped train the party that they can be horrible politicians that are never held accountable because voters will keep coming back. And every election they get slightly worse, because there is no accountability. Our current political landscape is the fault of the VBNMW crowd that’s allowed it to happen, including getting trump elected.
New York, and now Michigan, and I’m sure others will follow suite electing more progressive candidates because suddenly people are realizing primaries matter. Pointing backwards and shouting at the past isn’t going to get all those fucking pedophiles out of office.
https://www.npr.org/2026/08/05/g-s1-137422/primary-elections
BE salty, but put that anger toward something useful, like helping a non establishment candidate win in a primary.
It doesn’t matter of Democrats are the majority or minority party if they do nothing to benefit the working class. You voted for what you didn’t want in office and got it anyway.
I’m guessing you either did the same, or didn’t vote.
I dont support fascists of either color
Oh, so did you get what you didn’t vote for?
I’d rather vote for something I want and not get it than vote for something I don’t want, and get it.
Eugene V. Debs
Oh, we’ll vote for them, but the Democratic Party must cease to be undemocratic, and they must stop their ploy to act as a honeypot to capture and neutralize progressive policies and politicians. They must reckon with us, not the other way around. Armistice. That is the offer. After the midterms there will be deep canvassing in every district the shitlib Democrats thought were safe. Now they can go ask for more fucking money from their malefactors. They’ll need it.
I am so with you here. I’ve been scolding (I’m old, it’s my job) people for whining that the Dems won’t do anything if they take power, and I’m saying that statements like that give them permission to squander the next opportunity, too.
We have to let them know that if we sweep a bunch of angry progressives and democratic warriors into office, we expect every other Dem to match that energy, or get the fuck out of the way. And step one is to get rid of the MAGA comedy act of Schmuck & Jeffries. Those two losers are 50% of the reason MAGA is back in power, and stronger. Their schtick is old, and they need the hook to drag their corrupt asses offstage.
The Dems get ONE more chance, because if we don’t win the Midterms and play some serious HARD BALL for the next two years, we’ll lose the next opportunity in 2028.
What we need is a deep bench of like minded individuals in every contested region who are willing to run for everything from dog catcher to Senate, and to be one term politicians. If one loses, “batter up” for the next one. Policy not personality.
Yeah, I agree with you on this. Well said, we need to take over the Democratic Party and make it left wing again
People have been making this demand for decades.
It only sticks when Dem leadership finally changes.
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Dude, this is Lemmy, why are you here if you’re not a commie?
Because I hate Reddit
To troll commies
Bash the fash
If you’re not an anti-authoritarian commie by this point you’re one of the bad guys.
I am a bad guy
Well it is in your name I guess.
Quiet now, that commie is cooking
And this is consistent with how Bernie has voted over the years. If his vote doesn’t matter on a bill that will move things towards his goals but not enough, he votes no. However, if his vote is needed, he’ll vote yes because some progress is better than no progress.
And it is always amazing how people will claim to like Bernie but really don’t like it when this is pointed out.
Perfection is the enemy of the good. I understand that. I am also empathetic to the choice of those who sit out elections when they feel ignored. I don’t agree with it, but i understand.
Honestly though, we’re not even talking about perfection. We’re not even getting anyone that’s better that the stock, spineless, no-idea Democrat in a lot of places. I get why people sit out when all you hear is no big ideas other than, REPBULICAN IS BAD, VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO.
I’ll say it until I’m blue in the face.
Not voting is a moral endorsement of whoever wins no matter how bad they may be.
(For single non-transferrable votes like we usually have in the US this also applies to spoiling your ballot or voting for a vanity candidate.)
We’re not even getting anyone that’s better that the stock, spineless, no-idea Democrat in a lot of places.
Do you know what’s worse than stock, spinless, no-idea Democrats?
Fascist Republicans.
Do you know what happens when you sit out the vote?
You, as someone who might’ve voted Democrat, now are not. This increases the Republican vote.
You are enabling fascists.
People like me are frustrated by the spineless right-center Democrats as well, but I FUCKING VOTE BLUE TO PREVENT FASCISTS FROM TAKING OFFICE.
In the primary, vote progressive. Support progressives running for office! BE a fucking progressive running for office if you can. BUT WHEN YOUR CHOICE IS FASCISM OR NOT FASCISM FUCKING VOTE FOR NOT FASCISM OR YOU SUPPORT FASCISM. The general election is TOO FUCKING LATE and THAT is why you FUCKING VOTE BLUE IN THE GENERAL ELECTION NO MATTER WHO because they are better than the fucking fascist option.
Jesus fucking Christ it’s not that fucking hard.
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You are correct.
But the people you are trying to address are children throwing a tantrum who want what they want and nothing else. So they’ll absolutely not vote or vote for a 3rd party candidate for president that literally cannot win and, thus, help Republican fascists take control.
They do not care about the welfare of their nation (or any other nation). They care about their own self-satisfaction.
I’m also tired of trying to reach them by pretending that the only reason I vote Democrat is to prevent fascist Republicans from taking control. It’s a strategy to try to plead with these idiots using a single, very important point. Keep the fascists out. But I’ve been alive for long enough to know that Dems are always better regarding our economy. They don’t collect Constitutional violations like trading cards. They do things like pass the ACA/Obamacare and try to eliminate student debt. They vote to bolster social support programs.
I’m tired of pretending Dems are better just because they aren’t Republicans. They definitely aren’t perfect, but they get shit done and they have a track record to prove it. Most Americans, and especially the type that don’t vote or vote 3rd party, are too goddamn lazy to do their homework to discover this truth about the Democrat party.
Dems are already infinitely better than Republicans. The Democrat party just needs to be reformed to be pushed in a more progressive direction, which is totally possible since we just witnessed conservatives reforming the Republican party in the worst way possible over the last decade.
Are they? When they vote in a “bipartisan” way and ensure the fascists get 90% of their way? Nah, I’ve done and defended the harm reduction for the past decade and a half now, constantly holding my nose to vote for the assholes only to get mostly fascist bullshit. Nothing like Democrats who voted to give ICE MORE MONEY!
Nah, I vote in every primary for who I want and if after I vote someone who’s going to run with a Republican, fuck them. I’ll take the quick burn to the ground vs only burning slightly slower, not like these milquetoast assholes are actively doing anything to prevent it, welcoming fascism coming anyways.
Nah, I’m over the bullshit Blue no matter bullshit for no-idea, do nothingings especially when it’s not reciprocated.
welcoming fascism coming anyways.
Yeah, obviously you are.
Look, you can whine about Democrats all you want. The reality is no 3rd party is going to win the presidency anytime even remotely soon. As in, even if a 3rd party actually started putting in effort (they aren’t) and Americans actually started showing support for that 3rd party on a local/state level, it would still probably take decades for that movement to gain enough traction to have a shot at the presidency.
So you WILL get Republicans or Democrats in control of our federal government for the foreseeable future, and likely the remainder of your life.
Sooooooooooooooo do the math. It’s really not that hard.
You get actual fascists. Or you get a milquetoast party that’s always better with our economy, doesn’t violate the fuck out of our Constitutional rights, doesn’t impose tariff taxes on us, doesn’t have masked goons executing Americans in the streets, occasionally does things like pass the ACA/Obamacare, forgive student loans, bolster social support programs, doesn’t threaten our allies and cozy up to dictators, etc etc etc etc etc etc.
More power to you if you want to vote 3rd party in local/state elections. But if you can’t adult up and vote for the FAR, FAR better option when it comes to a presidential election, then you’re straight garbage. Period.
I’ll take the quick burn to the ground
This is a profoundly immature statement. I promise you if a quick burn to the ground actually happened you would regret it. You are not prepared to live in a collapsed nation. I promise you.
Dems are lying, cheating, censorial, and, worst of all - stupid. They gotta earn votes. The calling everyone else Nazis shtick is over
Ah yes everyone in the other political party is literally Hitler. Convenient
Found the fascist.
J’accuse!
Lol. Someone’s been in a coma for a number of years now. Welcome back.
When a fascist authoritarian rises and takes control of a party and all that party’s voters and all that party’s members of Congress bend the knee for A FUCKING DECADE through all sorts of absurd bullshit, including relentless Constitutional violations then yes, they’re ALL FUCKING FASCISTS.
Glad to have you back. You’ve got some catching up to do.
Fascist authoritarians don’t have their names taken off of public buildings by courts.
My experience with the Obama/Bernie/Trump voter isn’t that they have some nuanced understanding of politics that must be studied. They’re just extremely responsive to a charismatic performance.
Obama/Bernie/Trump voters are very fringe, despite the media’s attempts to suggest otherwise. There were more Clinton voters who went Republican when Obama won the primary in 2008.
And then continue to work to make the party more reflective of its members
Might as well pin this. Going to need this until November.
Just your friendly reminder that online right-wing operatives have a strong inclination to sow defeatism and apathy and push people to vote third party when it’s abundantly clear that there won’t be a race anywhere in the country where the Democrat isn’t better than the Republican in a binary choice election. Clearly, Bernie agrees.
Both the red and blue party are guilty of endorsing and fueling a genocide where thousand of kids were murdered
US and israel governments are spending billions in propaganda, if you ask me there’s more change that they are promoting the vote for red and blue rather than a third party that could actually change the system and end israel support. Regardless of that you should not vote for any evil party run by pedophiles and that support a genocide.
Even if, it doesn’t matter from a logical or ethical standpoint.
- If Harris was elected, USAID would still be in place.
- As a result of that, over 600,000 people would now be alive who otherwise are not.
- Harris was still objectively the better choice even on Gaza, climate change, USAID, LGBTQ+ rights, women’s rights, Ukrainian sovereignty (and Russia’s genocidal perpetration thereof) notwithstanding.
Sadly, the easiest bet to make is that either Red or Blue will win in November; and within that framework it is abundantly clear that Blue is the objectively better choice.
And don’t forget, we would likely not be at war with Iran, the economy would still be moving in a recovery direction, USA would still be persuing climate friendly R&D, and we would not have concentration camps abusing and torturing immigrants and innocent citizens*
100%. At this point I believe that anyone denying this as fact is either a fool, or a Republican operative.
You are speculating what criminals who supported a genocide would have done.
Sadly, the easiest bet to make
Stop betting and start making serious decisions.
I will. The track record proves Democrats are better on all these issues, and there is ZERO evidence to suggest Harris would’ve revoked USAID that has now killed hundreds of thousands (more than Gaza). I will thus vote Democrat, as that is the only rational thing to do.
There was plenty of evidence to suggest this would happen if Trump and Musk’s endorsement won.
Again, you are speculating what a criminal who supported a genocide would have done. If someone is ok with murdering children that’s enough not to trust them on any issues.
I will thus vote Democrat, as that is the only rational thing to do.
If you were alive in the 1940 the only rational thing to do would have been to grab a gun and fight the nazi. I’m not suggesting anyone should go to war but there’s no rationality in supporting a system that is rotten to the core. You are free to vote whoever you want but supporting the democrat party and claiming that to vote them is the only rational thing to do is simply not true.
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Trump’s choice to immediately dismantle America’s climate policy will kill 1.3 million people, most in India/China/Pakistan/developing African countries. Tell me again how superior you are by throwing away a vote to keep them alive.
Tell me again how superior you are by throwing away a vote to keep them alive.
If the government is killing a million of people it’s about time to take the streets. If you would rather enjoy your daily life and your commodities and vote for the lesser evil party you are not superior to anyone, if you encourage this lifestyle you are part of a corrupted system.
That’s not relevant to the topic at hand and a false dichotomy. You had a choice to vote for mitigating the very obvious and irreversible tragedy. You tacitly approved a social murder 17x as big as Gaza on day 1, let alone a discussion about Democrat green policy mitigating more damage. The clock is ticking and already more than Gaza are doomed.
The slim chance at accelerating overturn of the system, which doesn’t look any closer to today than 2024, was worth murdering them by inaction? Tell me what math you’re using that doesn’t look insane next to someone claiming that the world is more nuanced than 70k Gaza deaths. Tell me how your choice will end any differently to the people who decided not to vote for Al Gore to “teach Democrats a lesson”, which only accelerated the irreversible destruction of our biosphere (in addition to numerous other tragedies)?
This is what is happening to people in gaza and nearby territories. Go watch the videos of dying children and tell me again you are fine with the government killing only 100 of them instead of 300
3500 people died in one day due to extreme heat in India. At that rate you’d surpass Gaza’s death toll in less than 20 days, and it’s only getting worse. Countless more are now turning into climate refugees, forced from their unlivable homes just like the Palestinians. Tell me how little those lives mean to you.
Tell me you’re fine with 3500 deaths - the vast majority being children, the elderly, pregnant women and chronically ill - on top of hundreds of Gazan children just to keep your moral purity. Palestinians are still being murdered, but at least the excess mountain of human suffering let you feel good about yourself.
3500 people died in one day due to extreme heat in India.
The pedophile trump didn’t start climate change, you can blame the red and blue party for that, both parties served capitalism and corporations for a century and boycotted people who tried to change the system for good.
Tell me how little those lives mean to you.
I’m the one advocating for human lives and you are calling me out for it
Tell me you’re fine with 3500 deaths - the vast majority being children, the elderly, pregnant women and chronically ill
I’m not and that’s why i’m arguing we shouldn’t vote for the parties that enabled this to happen. The genocide in gaza is just the tip of the iceberg of what the US government has been involved with.
on top of hundreds of Gazan children just to keep your moral purity. Palestinians are still being murdered, but at least the excess mountain of human suffering let you feel good about yourself.
I’ve never argued that, that’s more what you are doing right now.
Lol. You’re like a brain damaged parrot that only knows one word.
Clownosaurus. We get it. Genocide. We’re pointing out to you that your actions MADE IT WORSE. But that brain damage of yours isn’t allowing you to grasp that.
Lol. You’re like a brain damaged parrot that only knows one word.
If the images of dying children makes you laugh you want to take a break and think hard about what you are doing.
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By better you mean to the left of trump, even though the DNC are now first term trump Republicans?
I mean even if we entertain what you say is true (it’s not), yes – that is by definition better than the alternative binary choice.
As your ‘better alternative’ keeps getting worse because there is no accountability
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How exactly is Bernie Sanders a shit person. Please explain. I am willing to listen, so please do your best.
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Let’s not back the 3rd party that’s leaps and bounds better than either shade of fascism. Let’s keep the status quo that’s holding us all down firmly in place.
If voters keep rewarding bad behavior from their politicians the next version of trump to come along will be way worse.
- Democratic party whom I align with 70% of time (as does Sanders): ~50% odds of winning
- Republican party whom I align with 0% of time: ~50% odds of winning.
- Third party whom I may or may not align with depending whom (and who are you actually fucking talking about?): 99.999% chance of losing, and thanks to the spoiler effect all but enables the greater poison to win.
Genius. Simply genius. Please, learn how Democratic primaries work, get engaged, and all your concerns will be assuaged.
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You know what causes 3rd parties to not win? Voters that think they are not viable. You know what would make them viable? Voters voting for them. Instead of having some balls and voting your conscience most voters wnt to be on a ‘winning team’ rather than do what’s right.
Spoiler effect is something that only happens in the minds of liberals, there could be NO 3rd party on the ballot and we are still not going to support your flavor of fascism.
They aren’t viable when, election after election, they get at most 2 to 3 percent and everyone knows it.
Not my problem, I vote for what I want in government. I’ll leave the tribalism to the fascists
Throwing away your vote helps ensure the worst of the two viable candidates gets elected.
Democrats alone got the worst of them elected both times. You’ve seen the numbers, Harris would have still lost if all 3rd party votes went to her. Decades of liberal ‘lesser evil’ has only resulted in the greater evil. That’s what happens when bad behavior is rewarded.
This is incorrect, actually, but I expect nothing more from someone I have tagged for dubious claims about Russia and China. Yikes!
If anyone else has better arguments or questions and who isn’t from .ml I’ll engage in good faith :)
No one cares about your good faith when your good faith is only looking for confirmation bias
Sadly those 3rd parties mathematically have no feasible path to overtaking the two parties in control without dissolving one first.
To dissolve a party you need to first start by creating a schism within the party itself. Utilize that schism to create a popularist outcry that allows the reformation of a new party. We do not have a system like proportional representation that allows for 3rd parties to grow and develop influence via coalitions.
Ignoring this is just willfully ignorant and is actually a strategy that the two parties employ to split votes from their main adversary.
No one is saying they want to keep the status quo, just that it is more feasible to completely reshape the party than to elevate an existing third party.
We’ve already seen it happen over the last ten years with the Republican party. How radical right winged factions infiltrated the old power structures and pushed the party further and further right. We could do the same with the old guard in the democratic party.
Fascists appreciate your support.
Democrats don’t appreciate my support
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Let’s not back the 3rd party that’s leaps and bounds better than either shade of fascism.
NO VIABLE 3RD PARTY ON A FEDERAL LEVEL.
NO VIABLE 3RD PARTY ON A FEDERAL LEVEL.
NO VIABLE 3RD PARTY ON A FEDERAL LEVEL.
Let me know how many more times I have to repeat it before it sinks in.
Fun Fact: The 3rd party candidate with the most votes in 2024 was Jill Stein with a half of a single percent of the total votes cast, confirming that no 3rd party has any path at all to winning a federal election.
Alright. So here it comes. Stick with me just a little longer. You got this.
Considering that we KNOW BEYOND DOUBT that a 3rd party can’t win a federal election, that leaves only two possible parties that will control our federal government. Think REAL REAL hard about which of those two parties you’d rather have control and then GO FUCKING VOTE FOR THEM.
Then, to make yourself feel all nice inside, when your local/state elections come up, have a fucking blast voting for 3rd party candidates and I’ll be right there cheering you on. Because voting for 3rd parties in local/state elections FOR A LONG TIME is how you ONE DAY get a 3rd party that can maybe possibly win a federal election.
Psssst. We only have 3 months until the election. Ain’t gonna be a viable 3rd party by then. Ain’t gonna be one in 2028 either.
Hope this helped. I somehow doubt it did though.
Decades of liberals thinking they’re choosing a lesser evil and they’ve got to show for it is a greater evil
even if moderates are victorious in the primaries
Just tell the DNC to ratfuck the primaries again, the people will obediently vote for the people happy to fund ICE at home and genocide abroad. There’s no way telling the dems they can do whatever they want without risking lower turnout can backfire.
It’d be weird if he told people not to vote.
We’ve been voting for the Democrats to vote progressive for years.
Let’s figure out an agreement and perhaps we’re on board.
It’s such weird phrasing. Encourage progressive voters to back democrats? The progressive candidates run as democrats. We’re trying to vote for democrats, and the bulk of voters have been clearly trying to get the entrenched democrats to get behind that and support them. But they keep not doing that.
The voters aren’t supposed to follow the will of the party establishment. They’re supposed to follow the will of the voters. They have it all backwards and feel like they should get to vote whatever way they’re paid to vote on issues and that we’re the ones doing bad and causing Republicans to win if that causes us to lose trust in them
TBF, not voting for democrats in the next cycle or so might be the immediate end of democracy in the US, (you could make a convincing argument that it’s already dead.) But just letting them keep doing what they’re doing is just a slightly longer path to the same.
I think the vast majority of us are voting for democrats and will be. It seems to be a bad sign that instead of chiding the establishment about ignoring the will of the voters to force progressive candidates off the ballot in favor of their preferred corporate owned candidates Sanders has turned the other direction entirely and is now basically saying that even if the democrat party ignores the will of the voters whatever candidate they decide is best should get everyone’s full support.
If the establishment is willing to ignore the will of the voters and do what they want instead then that’s already not a democracy. It would be like forcing a choice between corporate owned “democrats” who do what they’re paid to do and don’t care for the peasants at all or fascism. Sort of makes sense that there will be large numbers of people who select “Just fuck off then.”
Kinda fucking scary the only way to get representation is to go brewsters millions style and write in candidates…
You know, I’ve seen the things Count Binface has been doing across the pond and I’m really starting to feel like we could use some of that over here.
It’s got to be a nice change to have a politician you can look in the eye and trust. A genuine person instead of someone putting on some fake performance just to get votes.
Voting has been a crisis situation for nearly the past twenty years and that’s looking to continue long after you and I are dead. Sitting back and letting corpo dems help the cons destroy the county just a little bit slower is not an option anymore.
