That’s been happening for well over a decade now, and while “respectable security researchers” call it bullshit… there’s simply too much anecdotal evidence for it to happen organically.
You’re right that they don’t need to, but in reality they do whether they announce it or not.
In 2017 I tested this at home alone in my apartment in by myself using my smarphone by finding a site with lots of banner ads, monologing next to my phone about a topic with no relation to my current life at the time for about a minute, then refreshing the page. To my horror, the exact thing I was monologing about showed up on every single banner ad. Nothing in my life was going on related to that topic and the only thing connecting me and the topic was my own vocal words.
That was the moment I decided to avoid Google/big tech for the rest of my life.
NONE of that data can predict a random occurrence discussion that goes in a specific direction.
A great example is something that happened to me in 2015. One night I was out with friends, and one of them had a really bad panic attack. The next day I was discussing it with a colleague during a smoke break, who recommended he gets a clip-on pulse oximeter. No searches, nothing, literally just a half minute detour in our chat. I repeat, nothing was typed in or looked up or in any way entered into any computer intentionally.
Five minutes later we’re sitting in front of our respective computers and I start getting ads for the very thing. Mind you, we’re still at a point where nothing noted during this discussion was entered into any computer. Explain this.
“who you are near” does.
Someone that has recently purchased something might talk about it.
Someone that has commented on a news article might talk about it.
Someone has a panic attack and googles what to do about it.
Friend, or friends discussed said panic attack on big tech social in DMs or something. Obviously, you follow your friends, you are likely to go out on Saturdays with them, maybe even your first name was mentioned in their messages, you are now tied to an advertising angle for ‘Panick Attacks’. Data brokers buy this information, serve ads.
This is just ONE way the data may have been inferred. This doesn’t include contact scanning, location services and so on.
Except they think I’m a 65 year old radiological oncologist in Florida named [my name]. First off, my name is unusual enough that I used to keep tabs on all 13 of us. (you get really bored in the hospital unless you give yourself something to do) None of us work in medicine (well I offer some medical CPEs but that’s education, not medicine) I’ve lived in the hospital I guess. None of us live in Florida. The most famous of us used to be a hockey player, but he hasn’t done shit lately. He’s been to Florida. I’m sure. There’s a hickey team there in Miami, right?
I have been getting ads for stents and sutures and clips and bullshit like isn’t this supposed to be the dude who aims the radiation gun and burns out the cancer? For 25 godsdamned years. How long has goggle existed? That long. I don’t know how I fucked their profile of me but I managed it somehow.
google is an ad company, their main customers are the people who buy ads, pretending you need a toilet seat let’s them charge toilet seat makers more to “target” you
All the toilets in your building / neighborhood were installed all the same time and your need for a toilet seat likely matches the average lifespan of that item. They see this, they see you bought a toilet seat.
They don’t sell ads directly for you though. The do sell ads to people your age in your location that might need a toilet seat. They might also know that that item has a high return rate. On the chance you return it they want to sell the opportunity to advertise to you for more to potential customers (ad buyers)
I always wonder whether we’re getting it backwards.
Like, did you see ads for kayaks because you had that conversation about kayaking, or did you have the conversation because an ad company/social network decided it was time for you to get into kayaking?
It may not even be that they advertised kayaking to you. They may just have a very good model of your behaviour that predicts you’re likely to be interested in kayaking.
Not that hard to understand. They have an extremely large dataset to analyze for “subjects adjacent to these searches” and it returns “kayaking” among other things. Then just show ads for those related things. You ignore the things you’re not considering as background noise, and notice the ones related to your new hobby.
I have one smart TV and a few streaming devices, none of which have microphones. Yes that includes the remotes. I have zero smart speakers even plugged in to power.
I do have one smart phone with a least one microphone though.
It’s not all that exciting. If the person you had the conversation with searches for the thing and they’re in proximity or on the same network, they can link you to them.
Except as I said NOBODY looked up the term. How many times and in how many forms do I have to state that the MENTION of pulse oximeters was: verbal only, in no way entered into a computer before I started getting the adverts?
The discussion itself wasn’t even that long, colleague asked why I looked so tired, I told him how the previous night we had to call an ambulance and sort the guy out, colleague said “maybe he should get a cheap pulse oximeter, it can be helpful to predict attacks and handle them without a call [for an ambulance]”, and that was it. Topic was dropped.
And no, mutual friends didn’t look it up either as they didn’t care much for the guy (tbf it was a super toxic community I’m glad I’ve left behind).
OK buddy, you can win the internet argument if it’s that important to you. Just completely gloss over what I was telling you actually occurs so you can be right. 🙄
Are you familiar with ultrasonic cross-device tracking?
It’s an actual technology that’s in use in some places we know of and likely a lot more that we don’t, because who in marketing/advertising WOULDN’T leverage that power if it was an easily accomplished thing?
Sadly no, the physical switch recently introduced with FP 6 is by default to activate a distraction-free mode. It can be changed to other features that do not include mic/camera. Furthermore, it implies it’s all software managed, nowhere close to the security of real physical kill switch for mic and camera.
https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/27533345946258-Switch-button-Settings
I already get “random” ads for things that were only part of a verbal conversation that happened to be near the phone.
What I want is a physical kill switch for the mic and camera, less surveillance not more.
the pinephone has such kill switches
Even though it’s not technically physical, GrapheneOS does have switches for both the camera and mic that disable them at the system level.
So if you answer a call, for example, you’re prompted to unblock the mic because the phone app is requesting to use the mic.
That’s been happening for well over a decade now, and while “respectable security researchers” call it bullshit… there’s simply too much anecdotal evidence for it to happen organically.
The reality is they don’t need to listen.
They have so much data on users.
It just goes on and on and on.
People think they are unique but they are not as unique as they think.
You’re right that they don’t need to, but in reality they do whether they announce it or not.
In 2017 I tested this at home alone in my apartment in by myself using my smarphone by finding a site with lots of banner ads, monologing next to my phone about a topic with no relation to my current life at the time for about a minute, then refreshing the page. To my horror, the exact thing I was monologing about showed up on every single banner ad. Nothing in my life was going on related to that topic and the only thing connecting me and the topic was my own vocal words.
That was the moment I decided to avoid Google/big tech for the rest of my life.
NONE of that data can predict a random occurrence discussion that goes in a specific direction.
A great example is something that happened to me in 2015. One night I was out with friends, and one of them had a really bad panic attack. The next day I was discussing it with a colleague during a smoke break, who recommended he gets a clip-on pulse oximeter. No searches, nothing, literally just a half minute detour in our chat. I repeat, nothing was typed in or looked up or in any way entered into any computer intentionally.
Five minutes later we’re sitting in front of our respective computers and I start getting ads for the very thing. Mind you, we’re still at a point where nothing noted during this discussion was entered into any computer. Explain this.
Did anyone you were with the night of the panic attack who searched for what to do? Or texted anyone about it?
They can link you to other people by networks or nearby devices. Especially if you’re frequently around those people.
It would have been more concerning if your coworker got the ads.
Nope, as only ~4 people remained at that point, and they wouldn’t even be thinking of researching this topic.
“who you are near” does.
Someone that has recently purchased something might talk about it.
Someone that has commented on a news article might talk about it.
Someone has a panic attack and googles what to do about it.
Friend, or friends discussed said panic attack on big tech social in DMs or something. Obviously, you follow your friends, you are likely to go out on Saturdays with them, maybe even your first name was mentioned in their messages, you are now tied to an advertising angle for ‘Panick Attacks’. Data brokers buy this information, serve ads. This is just ONE way the data may have been inferred. This doesn’t include contact scanning, location services and so on.
No such discussion happened. As per above, that group of people were super toxic and couldn’t care less about this specific person…
At most the remaining people would’ve mentioned how his panic attack inconvenienced their night out.
Huh, and that’s 2015, before pulseoxen were common household medical supplies like thermometers.
Something smells fucky for sure
Except they think I’m a 65 year old radiological oncologist in Florida named [my name]. First off, my name is unusual enough that I used to keep tabs on all 13 of us. (you get really bored in the hospital unless you give yourself something to do) None of us work in medicine (well I offer some medical CPEs but that’s education, not medicine) I’ve lived in the hospital I guess. None of us live in Florida. The most famous of us used to be a hockey player, but he hasn’t done shit lately. He’s been to Florida. I’m sure. There’s a hickey team there in Miami, right?
I have been getting ads for stents and sutures and clips and bullshit like isn’t this supposed to be the dude who aims the radiation gun and burns out the cancer? For 25 godsdamned years. How long has goggle existed? That long. I don’t know how I fucked their profile of me but I managed it somehow.
Okay but how does all of that
Tell them I’m in the market for a toilet seat?
And then forget to tell them - I only need 1 toilet seat?
that’s an easy one.
google is an ad company, their main customers are the people who buy ads, pretending you need a toilet seat let’s them charge toilet seat makers more to “target” you
All the toilets in your building / neighborhood were installed all the same time and your need for a toilet seat likely matches the average lifespan of that item. They see this, they see you bought a toilet seat.
They don’t sell ads directly for you though. The do sell ads to people your age in your location that might need a toilet seat. They might also know that that item has a high return rate. On the chance you return it they want to sell the opportunity to advertise to you for more to potential customers (ad buyers)
It just goes on and on.
I always wonder whether we’re getting it backwards.
Like, did you see ads for kayaks because you had that conversation about kayaking, or did you have the conversation because an ad company/social network decided it was time for you to get into kayaking?
It may not even be that they advertised kayaking to you. They may just have a very good model of your behaviour that predicts you’re likely to be interested in kayaking.
Honestly this is scarier, and harder to understand. But I suspect it to be the case
Not that hard to understand. They have an extremely large dataset to analyze for “subjects adjacent to these searches” and it returns “kayaking” among other things. Then just show ads for those related things. You ignore the things you’re not considering as background noise, and notice the ones related to your new hobby.
Sorry, harder to understand for the general population. Most people just think their phones are listening to them.
Ah fair enough
I’m figuring it’s smart TVs and smart speakers, not the phones
I have one smart TV and a few streaming devices, none of which have microphones. Yes that includes the remotes. I have zero smart speakers even plugged in to power.
I do have one smart phone with a least one microphone though.
It’s not all that exciting. If the person you had the conversation with searches for the thing and they’re in proximity or on the same network, they can link you to them.
Except as I said NOBODY looked up the term. How many times and in how many forms do I have to state that the MENTION of pulse oximeters was: verbal only, in no way entered into a computer before I started getting the adverts?
The discussion itself wasn’t even that long, colleague asked why I looked so tired, I told him how the previous night we had to call an ambulance and sort the guy out, colleague said “maybe he should get a cheap pulse oximeter, it can be helpful to predict attacks and handle them without a call [for an ambulance]”, and that was it. Topic was dropped.
And no, mutual friends didn’t look it up either as they didn’t care much for the guy (tbf it was a super toxic community I’m glad I’ve left behind).
Except that doesn’t happen.
Yes, it does
OK buddy, you can win the internet argument if it’s that important to you. Just completely gloss over what I was telling you actually occurs so you can be right. 🙄
Are you familiar with ultrasonic cross-device tracking?
It’s an actual technology that’s in use in some places we know of and likely a lot more that we don’t, because who in marketing/advertising WOULDN’T leverage that power if it was an easily accomplished thing?
Should be legally mandated in the surveillance environment we are in.
I’m pretty sure fairphone has that hardwired killswitch
Sadly no, the physical switch recently introduced with FP 6 is by default to activate a distraction-free mode. It can be changed to other features that do not include mic/camera. Furthermore, it implies it’s all software managed, nowhere close to the security of real physical kill switch for mic and camera. https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/27533345946258-Switch-button-Settings