I have heard that before, though never seen anything that actually confirms it, but it seems plausible enough. I’m just not sure what it has to do with the topic at hand. Even when America allowed slavery and didn’t allow women to vote, it was still not fascist.
a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictoral leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition
(Mildly edited)
Even when America had slavery and only white male landowners could vote, it was a democracy. Not a very representative one, but a democracy nonetheless.
You don’t feel the system that enslaved human beings based on their race “exalts nation and race over the individual?”
I’d say the US wasn’t fascist in that period because fascism is a post-industrial ideology that’s interrelated with corporate mass media. But, when it did come around, fascism was explicitly modeled on the “slavery + colonial genocide” era of the USA’s development. Fascism in the 20th century was the logic of colonialism coming home from the periphery to the imperial core.
My point is that the only reason the USA “wasn’t fascist” in the 19th century was because the term “fascism” hadn’t been invented yet. It’s ahistorical to use that term. However, fascism is very much based on and directly inspired by the colonialist slave society that existed the USA in the early 19th century. Mussolini and other early fascists talked openly & extensively about this. As has been said, Hitler treated other Europeans like Europeans had been treating their colonial subjects.
I wasn’t talking about voting, and I’m certainly not discouraging anyone from voting. I’m not sure why you got that from what I posted. You were saying that the USA wasn’t fascist in the 19th century, and I’m agreeing, but with a big ol’ asterisk.
I assumed you read the entire thread that led to mine. Kind of interesting that you apparently didn’t, but not a big deal; sorry about the bad assumption.
My point is that the only reason the USA “wasn’t fascist” in the 19th century was because the term “fascism” hadn’t been invented yet.
Even without the word, the ideas existed. America didn’t have a dictatorship, so it didn’t meet the definition of fascism, regardless of the label we use.
I can’t say for sure, but I think you’re confused about what these fascist dictators allegedly modeled after America. Is wasn’t the system of government, it was the shitty way America treated undesirables. A democracy (as we all know) can treat even its own citizens in abhorrent ways and still be a democracy. In the simplest example, a country that directly votes on any given topic can vote to round up and kill all red-haired people. That’s democratic. Terrible, yes, but democratic.
I’m pretty interested in what, if anything, you’re working towards here. Let’s say I agree that American has always been essentially fascist, despite being able to vote out representatives. So what?
I have heard that before, though never seen anything that actually confirms it, but it seems plausible enough. I’m just not sure what it has to do with the topic at hand. Even when America allowed slavery and didn’t allow women to vote, it was still not fascist.
How would you define fascism?
Webster defnes it as:
(Mildly edited)
Even when America had slavery and only white male landowners could vote, it was a democracy. Not a very representative one, but a democracy nonetheless.
You don’t feel the system that enslaved human beings based on their race “exalts nation and race over the individual?”
I’d say the US wasn’t fascist in that period because fascism is a post-industrial ideology that’s interrelated with corporate mass media. But, when it did come around, fascism was explicitly modeled on the “slavery + colonial genocide” era of the USA’s development. Fascism in the 20th century was the logic of colonialism coming home from the periphery to the imperial core.
You may not have noticed that the definition is an AND statement, not an OR statement.
Is there any point to this line of discussion? What’s the end game here? You aren’t going to convince me there’s no point in voting.
My point is that the only reason the USA “wasn’t fascist” in the 19th century was because the term “fascism” hadn’t been invented yet. It’s ahistorical to use that term. However, fascism is very much based on and directly inspired by the colonialist slave society that existed the USA in the early 19th century. Mussolini and other early fascists talked openly & extensively about this. As has been said, Hitler treated other Europeans like Europeans had been treating their colonial subjects.
I wasn’t talking about voting, and I’m certainly not discouraging anyone from voting. I’m not sure why you got that from what I posted. You were saying that the USA wasn’t fascist in the 19th century, and I’m agreeing, but with a big ol’ asterisk.
I assumed you read the entire thread that led to mine. Kind of interesting that you apparently didn’t, but not a big deal; sorry about the bad assumption.
Even without the word, the ideas existed. America didn’t have a dictatorship, so it didn’t meet the definition of fascism, regardless of the label we use.
I can’t say for sure, but I think you’re confused about what these fascist dictators allegedly modeled after America. Is wasn’t the system of government, it was the shitty way America treated undesirables. A democracy (as we all know) can treat even its own citizens in abhorrent ways and still be a democracy. In the simplest example, a country that directly votes on any given topic can vote to round up and kill all red-haired people. That’s democratic. Terrible, yes, but democratic.
I’m pretty interested in what, if anything, you’re working towards here. Let’s say I agree that American has always been essentially fascist, despite being able to vote out representatives. So what?